Did Jesus Rebuke His Mother in Luke 8:19-21?

Yesterday’s Gospel is an easy one to stumble over as Catholics. It’s from Luke 8:19-21, while Jesus is teaching the crowds:

Then His Mother and His brothers came to Him but were unable to join Him because of the crowd. He was told, “Your Mother and Your brothers are standing outside and they wish to see you.” He said to them in reply, “My Mother and My brothers are those who hear the word of God and act on it.”

A few chapters later, we hear something similar (Luke 11:27-28):

While He was speaking, a woman from the crowd called out and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that carried you and the breasts at which you nursed.” He replied, “Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”
What’s going on here? Is Jesus denouncing His Mother?
Nope.  Rather, He’s showing that it’s primarily faith, not blood relation, that matters.  In the case of Mary, She was connected to Christ in both ways.  It’s precisely because of Her faith that She became His Mother.
Compare the passage above to a third scene from Luke’s Gospel, Luke 1:41-45,

When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. 

And how does this happen to me, that the Mother of my Lord should come to me? For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.

At first, Elizabeth’s Holy Spirit-inspired prayer to Mary sounds very similar to what the woman in the crowd shouted to Jesus in Luke 11.  Both Elizabeth and the woman in the crowd talk about Mary’s blessedness.  But Elizabeth, being filled with the Holy Spirit, is able to understand that Mary is blessed for is her faith, not because of Who she’s related to.

Obviously, Jesus isn’t denying that Mary is blessed. He’s not contradicting the Holy Spirit.  And we shouldn’t read His words in Luke 8 or Luke 11 as a rebuke of His Mother.  Instead, we should see them as an invitation.

Mary is both the biological Mother of Jesus, and His most devoted follower.  But which of these two traits matters more to Jesus?  Would it be better to be a faithless blood relative, or a faithful foreigner?  The answer is obvious to us today, but it wasn’t always so. So what Jesus is rebuking is the idea that if you come from a holy family, you’re set.

The Old Testament contains plenty of multi-generational blessings and curses, and some people appear to have reacted by deciding that they must enjoy God’s favor, since they come from a good family.  Jesus rebukes this idea with stunning clarity in John 8:39.  When the people in the crowd boasted, “Our father is Abraham,” Jesus replied: “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works of Abraham,” and accuses them of having the devil for their father (John 8:44).

In other words, the most important fatherhood is spiritual, not biological.  That’s true, whether we’re talking about God’s Fatherhood, or Abraham’s, or even the devil’s.  The same is true of motherhood and brotherhood.  This doesn’t diminish the biological family at all, but draws it up into something more perfect.  Dads should be spiritual fathers to their kids, moms should be spiritual mothers to their kids, and children should treat one another as spiritual brethren.

Like I said, Jesus’ emphasis on faith over bloodlines is an awesome invitation. You and I can’t trace our bloodline to Jesus of Nazareth.  But Jesus’ point is that this doesn’t matter.  Mary, with of her unparalleled faith, become the biological Mother of God, and His most devoted follower.  We’re not going to become His biological kin, but we can join His family through faith.

We see this throughout the New Testament.  God is our spiritual Father (Matthew 6:9), the Woman (an image of Mary and the Church) is depicted as our spiritual Mother (Revelation 12:7), and we’re each others’ spiritual brothers and sisters (1 Corinthians 7:15).

We can approach God Himself as if He were our biological Father, and so we’re urged to “draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need” (Hebrews 4:16). That’s (literally) awesome.

18 Comments

  1. @Joe: “So what Jesus is rebuking is the idea that if you come from a holy family, you’re set.” It’s sad that you think that’s what is said. They (His half-siblings) came to rebuke Him (John 7:5; Mark 3:21). [And because Mary came with His brothers, maybe she was also about to rebuke Him. Although she could very well have been a mediator who doesn’t pick sides as mothers tend to do.] Anyways, don’t use Mary’s prophecy of herself being called blessed by all generations and Elizabeth calling her blessed as examples of Luke 11 not being a rebuke. That is obtuse. While it wasn’t necessarily a direct rebuke of her, it most certainly was against the coming Mary-worshipers. He didn’t show his family any special attention when they came for Him. Why should we give Mary special attention? He didn’t want to give the impression that His earthly mother should receive praise when He’s right there. Why should we pray to her when He’s right there? Shoot, He didn’t even call her ‘Mom’ or ‘Mother’. He called her ‘woman’. While it’s a given that she may very well be the most blessed woman to walk this earth, does that mean we should blaspheme our Lord? Mary would be devastated that she’s worshiped. Show her some respect while she’s at rest, and “hear the Word of God and obey it”.

  2. Michael,

    There’s a lot to unpackage here, but I’ll do my best.

    (1) If Jesus is saying, in Luke 11, that Mary is not blessed, then He’s contradicting the Holy Spirit’s testimony through both Mary and Elizabeth in Luke 1. Obviously, that’s not possible. So clearly, something different is going on. So your theory that Jesus is rebuking her is off to a bad start.

    (2) The idea that Catholics worship Mary is one that I think you know is false. If not, let me be clear: we don’t worship Mary.

    (3) “Why should we give Mary special attention?” Mary says that all generations will honor her (Luke 1:48), while you say we should ignore her.

    We honor her because of her faith, and her obedience to Christ. We honor her because she’s the most blessed among all women, the New Eve in Christ’s Glorious Redemption. We honor her because she’s the Mother of God, and the Mother of all Christians. And we honor her because the earliest Christians honored her.

    There are plenty of other reasons, but why isn’t it good enough to simply say that Luke 1:48 says that all generations will call her Blessed? Who besides the Virgin Mary is promised a similar blessing of perpetual homage?

    (4) He didn’t want to give the impression that His earthly mother should receive praise when He’s right there. Not only is there literally nothing in the text supporting this, but the suggestion is gross. Is it wrong to say something nice about your neighbor? Or only wrong to say something nice about them if Jesus is there? Because either way, that’s upside-down Christianity.

    The idea that Jesus couldn’t stand to be around one person praising another one, if He wasn’t the center of attention, runs contrary to even basic knowledge of Christ, and His utter humility. Think about what you’re suggesting. You recklessly accuse Catholics of blasphemy, yet you’re the one suggesting evil of our Lord.

    (5) Finally, when Jesus calls Mary “Woman,” He’s not being cold. In the context, He’s equating her with Eve, whose name before the Fall was Woman (see Genesis 2:23; she isn’t named “Eve” until Genesis 3:20, after the Fall).

    Irenaeus, in Against Heresies (from 180 A.D.), compared the two Women:

    “For just as the former was led astray by the word of an angel, so that she fled from God when she had transgressed His word; so did the latter, by an angelic communication, receive the glad tidings that she should sustain (portaret) God, being obedient to His word. And if the former did disobey God, yet the latter was persuaded to be obedient to God, in order that the Virgin Mary might become the patroness (advocata) of the virgin Eve. And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to death by means of a virgin, so is it rescued by a virgin; virginal disobedience having been balanced in the opposite scale by virginal obedience. For in the same way the sin of the first created man (protoplasti) receives amendment by the correction of the First-begotten, and the coming of the serpent is conquered by the harmlessness of the dove, those bonds being unloosed by which we had been fast bound to death.”

    Now, if you’re being consistent, you’ll now have to claim that the very earliest followers of the Apostles were Mary-worshipers. But these same men were the ones who coin the term Trinity, bring us the Bible, and so forth. Are you really going to stick to your guns that they know less about the Gospel than you, and that they’re heretics? Or can you concede that perhaps it’s you who is misunderstanding the situation?

    God bless,

    Joe

  3. @Joe: In response to your five statements:
    1) Wrong. I never said he was rebuking her. I said it was a possibility since she showed up with His half-siblings.
    2) Wrong. Offering prayers to the unseen is worship. Period! OK, look at this: A) If Mary is being offered prayer in China at the same time as she’s being offered prayer in the US, then how could she hear it? Hearing multiple prayers at once is what makes God, God. B) The Torah says that we shouldn’t contact the dead. Yet you say, “The saints are living.” But what about someone deceased being offered up prayers who isn’t yet declared ‘blessed’? Since you don’t even have to officially be declared ‘venerable’ for veneration anymore (‘Veneration for a Venerable’ on ewtn website), do you actually think nobody has ever offered up a prayer to someone in hell? The practice itself puts you in a position to sin by contacting the dead. And that’s from a Catholic-reasoning perspective. Remember, God is NOT the author of confusion.
    3) Wrong. I never said that we should ignore her. Did I not say, “she may very well be the most blessed woman to walk this earth”? [On a side note, read the last part of answer 2.]
    4) Wrong. Why would she praise His mother when He is right there? [Again, on a side note, read the last part of answer 2.]
    5) I never said that He was being cold. You said that. On your other statements of comment five: That is pointless, unfounded, circle-talking. [Really, seriously, read the last part of answer 2. Even from a Catholic perspective, how could one possibly say that it isn’t an opportunity for sin?]

  4. Michael,

    (1) So are you saying it’s a possibility or not? You seem to say “no” and then “maybe yes.”

    (2) You’re making an incredibly broad accusation — that almost every Christian in history was a pagan without even knowing it. How are you this comfortable in your assertions?

    A) Hearing multiple prayers at once is what makes God, God. This is what I mean by assertions. You just claim this: no Scriptural support, no logical reasoning, nothing. And it doesn’t even make sense. By that standard, if you hear two prayers while on an international conference call, you’re God. That’s crazy.

    B) If you’re right, why didn’t the early Christians think that the Torah prohibited praying to Saints? Isn’t it possible that “necromancy” isn’t the same thing as praying (at all)? Likewise, if you laid out a “forerunners in the faith” list (a la Hebrews 11), and included someone who turned out to be in Hell, would you be sinning, by your own logic?

    (3) You’re skipping the part about honoring her. I’m saying it’s Scriptural to do so.

    (4) “Wrong. Why would she praise His mother when He is right there? ” I find this logic incredibly contorted. Jesus lived an earthly life for roughly 33 years. Is it honestly your position that no one could praise anyone else for anything around Jesus, because it was somehow a sin? If your daughter took her first steps, but Jesus was there, you couldn’t clap for her? I again don’t see any logical or Scriptural support for this belief.

    (5) Right, I’m saying it would be cold to refer to One’s Mother in a purely impersonal way. But you’re the one claiming that Jesus actually did that… a point you neglected to address.

    Then we get to your last comment: “On your other statements of comment five: That is pointless, unfounded, circle-talking.” Why? How? Give me Scripture, logic, something.

  5. Here’s the heart of the matter. I’m a sinner, and misunderstand things in the Gospel (despite my best intentions) much more frequently than I’d like to admit. But as a Catholic, I’m also in a blessed position. I can humbly concede that there are plenty of areas that I don’t understand, and I drink deeply from the waters of those who went before me. I learn new stuff about the faith constantly from my spiritual betters, and feed off of two thousand years of spiritual insights from the greatest Christians to ever walk this planet. But (and this is just how it seems to me) you don’t seem to really care what the last two thousand years of Christians had to say, or what the earliest disciples of the Apostles had to say. You’ve found a minuscule sliver of Christians, unknown to most of the world, non-existent throughout nearly all of Christian history, and you seem to have just concluded that they, and you, are right … about everything. On every issue you comment on, you’re incredibly confident you’re right, but I can’t figure out why.

    Here, for example, you’ve made the radical claim that Catholics are Mary worshipers, and persist even after being corrected. As I said, by this logic, you’d have to say that the earliest Christians worshiped Mary, a point you waved it away by saying it was “pointless, unfounded, circle-talking.” You didn’t bother even addressing the actual argument, or showing why it was wrong.

    So let me try again: is it your position that the early Christians were (unbeknownst to even themselves) idolaters? And that virtually every Christian since then has been, too? Or is it okay when the early Church does it, but not the Church today?

    Perhaps more fundamentally, let’s say that a Buddhist wanted to become Christian, and wanted to know what the appropriate posture to take towards the Mother of God would be — or any other doctrinal issue. How could he be expected to know that you’re the one with true Christianity, while most everyone else is really pagan?

    How would our Buddhist friend know that Michael Addison knows more about the Gospel than Irenaeus or Augustine or Benedict? How, for that matter, do you know this?

    God bless,

    Joe

  6. @Joe: I have been logical. You’re the one talking in circles, grabbing doctrine out of thin air just because some blasphemer claimed a distorted ‘Apostolic Succession’. I don’t respond to the issues, am not logical, don’t use Scripture? Wow! Look who’s talking! Borderline nothing at all from the RCC is Scriptural, logical, etc. Oh, and almost nobody has disagreed with Catholics? Then why has she murdered MILLIONS? “Get out of her.”

    1. AMen Michael..you are correct..Mary IS worshiped in the Catholic church and adoration- adoring who? AND when one needs a doctor , do they call THE DOCTOR?(Jesus) or his wife? (Mary)? Circle thought and talk is what Catholics Do—it is no wonder that we don’t hear of Joseph (earthly dad of Jesus )thru Jesus’ministry–or talk about CONFUSION..every time Father would be mentioned, the Catholic church would do like they have with Mary–now Claiming that SHE herself is of a virgin birth(born without sin) (which would mean her PARENTS would have to had been sinless…AND Mary’s BIRTH would have been in the Bible as supernatural- and recorded as such…but neither is scriptural..but the concoction of mere men and traditions of a church …

      Get out of her is truly the “choice” these Catholics (as well as with any “church” that does not believe in JESUS as Lord and Savior and ACCEPT what he did for us –sinners–)need to do!)

  7. Michael,

    First off, she didn’t murder million. That’s an absurd black legend. Second, read over what you’ve written, but do it from this perspective: try and put yourself in the shoes of someone who doesn’t already agree with you. Are you giving them any reason to change their minds?

    God bless,

    Joe

  8. Hi Joe,

    Just going to paste​ one of​ your replies​. Perhaps read it out loud and think about?

    “A) Hearing multiple prayers at once is what makes God, God. This is what I mean by assertions. You just claim this: no Scriptural support, no logical reasoning, nothing. And it doesn’t even make sense. By that standard, if you hear two prayers while on an international conference call, you’re God. That’s crazy.”

    I agree God hears all prayers. But the RCC​ states​​ ​MOTHER MARY – OUR POWERFUL INTERCESSOR IN HEAVEN​, along with other titles. ​(1 Timothy 2:5, the only Mediator between God and us is Jesus.​)​

    ​So logically she somehow is “Must be Deified as a god/dess, Mary omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient​.​ There is no mention She sits on the Left Hand Side of GOD our Father, however she just happens to take over God’s/Jesus’/Holy Spirit Role?​ I personally believe God Created everything, and He sent Himself via Mary to walk with us. So, why does God need her to take over His role?​ I think it’s time to be honest, let the Bible speak for it’s self apposed to tradition.

    Jeremiah was directed by God to speak out the Lord’s disapproval of Israel’s worship of the “Queen of Heaven” ( 7:18 ; 44:17-19 ). This female astral deity was particularly worshiped by the women in Judah and Egypt during the time of Jeremiah.​

    1. Alan says:
      February 23, 2016 at 4:54 am
      Hi Joe,

      Hi, Alan. De Maria here. Let me take your note from the end, first. You said:

      I think it’s time to be honest, let the Bible speak for it’s self apposed to tradition.

      Ok. Let’s see what the Bible says:

      2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

      So, you say to listen to the Bible and deny tradition. But the Bible says to listen to BOTH.

      Here’s another:

      Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

      You say to ignore the Church, but the Bible says to obey the Church.

      I agree God hears all prayers. But the RCC​ states​​ ​MOTHER MARY – OUR POWERFUL INTERCESSOR IN HEAVEN​, along with other titles. ​(1 Timothy 2:5, the only Mediator between God and us is Jesus.​)​

      Read 1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

      Notice that we are called to “make intercessions”. What does Jesus do “as Mediator”?

      Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

      Perhaps you weren’t aware that Mediators make intercessions. Therefore, Scripture calls us all to become mediators because Scripture calls us all to make intercessions.

      And if you reject Scripture’s call, then you are disobeying the Word of God.

      So logically she somehow is “Must be Deified as a god/dess, ….So, why does God need her to take over His role?​

      Then you must be deified as god. Have your children, your brothers or your friends ever asked you to pray for them? Did you listen to their prayers?

      You are totally confused by the Protestants. This is a new Dispensation. Jesus Christ gave us the example on the Mountain when He conversed with Moses and Elijah. We now walk with the Saints. We can ask them to pray for us. Most especially, His Mother.

      Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

      Jeremiah was directed by God to speak out the Lord’s disapproval of Israel’s worship of the “Queen of Heaven” ( 7:18 ; 44:17-19 ). This female astral deity was particularly worshiped by the women in Judah and Egypt during the time of Jeremiah.​

      Exactly! That woman was not Mary! That is why God was displeased that any man should honor a woman and give the Title which was due to His Mother. Get a clue! It is Mary who is crowned in heaven! Why else would Scripture depict a Woman being crowned in heaven if Scripture didn’t want you to understand that there is a Queen of Heaven?!!!

      Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

      1. Hello De Maria in response,

        This is how we learn to grow and Love our Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ our Savior.

        We need to read this if not all of 1 Timothy 2. Instructions on Worship in full context, however lets look at 1-7: I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

        ============

        “You are totally confused by the Protestants. This is a new Dispensation. Jesus Christ gave us the example on the Mountain when He conversed with Moses and Elijah. We now walk with the Saints. We can ask them to pray for us. Most especially, His Mother.”

        My response:
        This is from the Catholic Catechism — list popes have claimed to be God or equal to God. They are part of the RCC Dispensation? I hope this is self explanatory.

        1.Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) wrote: “We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God.” (1 Book of Gregory 9 Decret. c. 3)

        2.The Lateran Council addressing Pope Julius II in an oration delivered by Marcellus said: “Take care that we lose not that salvation, that life and breath which thou hast given us, for thou art our shepherd, thou art our physician, thou art our governor, thou art our husbandman, thou art finally another God on earth.” (Council Edition. Colm. Agrip. 1618)

        3.Pope Nicholas said of himself: “I am in all and above all, so that God Himself and I, the vicar of God, hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do… wherefore, if those things that I do be said not to be done of man, but of God, what do you make of me but God? Again, if prelates of the Church be called of Constantine for gods, I then being above all prelates, seem by this reason to be above all gods. Wherefore, no marvel, if it be in my power to dispense with all things, yea with the precepts of Christ.” (Decret. par. Distinct 96 ch. 7 edit. Lugo 1661)

        4.The RC New York catechism states: “The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth… by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.”

        5.The title “Lord God the Pope” – these words appeared in the Canon Law of Rome. “To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical.” (The Gloss extravagances of Pope John XXII Cum. Inter, tit XIV Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685). Father A. Pereira acknowledged: “It is quite certain that Popes have never disapproved or rejected this title “Lord God the Pope” for the passage in the gloss referred to appears in the edition of the Canon Law published in Rome by Gregory XIII.”

        6.Pope Nicholas I declared that “the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who being God, cannot be judged by man.” (Labb IX Dist.: 96 Can 7 Satis Evidentur Decret Gratian Primer Para)

        7.Speaking [in] the name of the Pope (a rhetorical device) Cardinal Manning said: “I acknowledge no civil superior, I am the subject of no prince, and I claim more than this, I claim to be the supreme judge on earth and director of the consciences of men, I am the last supreme judge of what is right and wrong.” (Sermon in the Pro Cathedral, Kensington, Tablet Oct 9, 1864)

        ==============

        Revelation is the absolute toughest to dive into. It encompasses a summary of much from the OT, Gospels, the unfolding of events.

        Revelation 12:6

        AND there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
        2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
        3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
        4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
        5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
        6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

        This is Exactly not Queen of Heaven/Mary.

        1. Sorry, I didn’t edit out the actual Revelation 12:1-6 as above, getting a little long winded on limited time for positive discussion.

          The book of Revelation contains a passage in which St. John sees a “great sign in the sky”. He wrote:

          A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

          The ancient “goddess of 10,000 names” may well be called, Our Lady of the Nations. … Jesuits Black Virgin Queen, Sophia, Mary Magdalen, to Gnostics is Isis the female equal to God, in other words, is Mary, uniting and preparing the way for her “jesus” birthing in the Son of Perdition. She has usurped and is as described in Revelation 12:1-3 and 4a
          The Marian apparitions’ plan to unite all religions — Mary — The Queen of All! (Quote: “I am Mary, the Queen of Heaven and the Queen of Angels.”)
          The Prophet Isaiah foresaw a woman who is called “The Lady of Kingdoms” (Read ALL Isaiah 47). Isaiah predicted that her true identity would remain concealed until the very end. With all the prophecies now lining up, the last snippet of Revelation is unfolding. Also See Nahum 3:3-4.
          Revelation 12:4b …the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. = Just before Jesus was born, Satan through the agency of the Roman Empire (Herod & apostate Jews), prepared to destroy Him

          Revelation 12:5 …And she brought forth a man child… = Birth of Jesus Christ

          Revelation 12:5 …her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. = Ascension of Jesus Christ

          Revelation 12:6 …And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. = God’s faithful people, His church protected during a 1,260 year period when a religious and political power based in Rome would persecute God’s true followers, the Bible would remain in a state of obscurity and God’s church would find refuge in seclusion and hiding. The Dark Ages qualifies for this period of time, beginning in 538AD and ending in 1798AD. (pope meekly stepping to the throne of Caesar, the Vicar of Christ ((“substitute for Christ.”)) took up the sceptre to which the emperors and kings of Europe were to bow in reverence through so many ages, from sentiments of respect for the dignity of his office and because he was the only mediator whom they recognized in their almost interminable wars.

          Revelation 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues; plus more warnings?

          1. Alan says:
            February 24, 2016 at 12:33 am
            Sorry, I didn’t edit out the actual Revelation 12:1-6 as above, getting a little long winded on limited time for positive discussion.

            No problem.

            The book of Revelation contains a passage in which St. John sees a “great sign in the sky”. He wrote:

            A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

            The ancient “goddess of 10,000 names” may well be called, Our Lady of the Nations. … Jesuits Black Virgin Queen, Sophia, Mary Magdalen, to Gnostics is Isis the female equal to God,….

            That is just your imagination working overtime. Mary is the Queen of Heaven. She is the Mother of Jesus Christ, the King of Heaven.

            Revelation 12:5 …And she brought forth a man child… = Birth of Jesus Christ

            Mary is the Mother of Jesus Christ.

            Revelation 12:5 …her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. = Ascension of Jesus Christ

            Jesus Christ is the King of Heaven.

            Revelation 12:6 …And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

            Mary fled into Egypt when the Angel warned St. Joseph that Herod wanted to kill the Holy Child. They remained there for approximately three and a half years. Then the Angel Gabriel called them back home.

            = God’s faithful people, His church protected during a 1,260 year period ….

            You’re making that all up. None of that is in Scripture.

            Revelation 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues; plus more warnings?

            Yeah. God called the Jews out of Jerusalem and into the Catholic Church. Jerusalem has 7 mountains. Jerusalem is the Great City where our Lord was killed. Jerusalem is the harlot.

            Who is that woman, Babylon?

        2. Alan says:
          February 24, 2016 at 12:24 am
          Hello De Maria in response,

          This is how we learn to grow and Love our Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ our Savior.

          Actually, Scripture instructs you to go to the Church in order to learn the Will of God. The Church is the instrument which God established in order that you learn what God commands:

          Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

          We are forced to do this, because you refuse to listen to Scripture and submit to the Teaching of Christ’s Church.

          We need to read this if not all of 1 Timothy 2.

          Ok.

          Instructions on Worship in full context, however lets look at 1-7: I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

          Again, we are instructed to make intercession. Mediators make intercession. Therefore, we are instructed to be mediators. We are also instructed to follow Christ’s example. Christ is a Mediator. Therefore, we are instructed to be mediators.

          ============

          “You are totally confused by the Protestants. This is a new Dispensation. Jesus Christ gave us the example on the Mountain when He conversed with Moses and Elijah. We now walk with the Saints. We can ask them to pray for us. Most especially, His Mother.”

          My response:
          This is from the Catholic Catechism — list popes have claimed to be God or equal to God.

          Well, now you’re just lying. Because the Catholic Catechism does not say that any Pope claimed to be God. What it does say is that God speaks through His Popes. And that can be proven from Scripture:

          2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

          Do you see what that says, Alan? The Church is Christ’s ambassador. The Church prays for you in Christ’s stead. Why do you and the Protestants deny this Biblical Truth?

          They are part of the RCC Dispensation? I hope this is self explanatory.

          1.Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) wrote: “We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God.” (1 Book of Gregory 9 Decret. c. 3)….7.Speaking [in] the name of the Pope (a rhetorical device) Cardinal Manning said: “I acknowledge no civil superior, I am the subject of no prince, and I claim more than this, I claim to be the supreme judge on earth and director of the consciences of men, I am the last supreme judge of what is right and wrong.” (Sermon in the Pro Cathedral, Kensington, Tablet Oct 9, 1864)

          Amen! Have you ever read in Scripture what the first Pope, St. Peter, said to Ananias before he died? Pay attention.

          Acts 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

          3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

          Do you get it? When Ananias lied to St. Peter, he lied to the Holy Ghost. When Ananias lied to St. Peter, he lied to God.

          ==============

          Revelation is the absolute toughest to dive into. It encompasses a summary of much from the OT, Gospels, the unfolding of events.

          Protestants have no idea how to even begin to understand the book of Revelation. You have no frame of reference since you deny Sacred Tradition and especially the Mass.

          Revelation 12:6

          You mean Rev 12:1 and it is very important that the verse begins with the word, AND. Because the idea begins in the previous Chapter. Let me show you:

          Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

          Notice that this verse is about the Ark of the Covenant. Did you know that Mary is the New Ark of the Covenant. When you combine these two verses, you see why. Both Mary and the Ark contained the Word of God.

          AND there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

          The New Ark of the Covenant. And she is now crowned Queen of Heaven. Because the Mother of a King, is a Queen.

          This is Exactly not Queen of Heaven/Mary.

          You’re in denial. She is the Queen of Heaven. She is the mother of the King, Jesus Christ.

  9. Woe, it is simple. Worship only GOD, the one and only true God. Worship Him in spirit and in truth. Pray only to one and only true God. If you pray and worship any other god, it is an idolatry and will condemn you to hell. Unless you repent and worship one True GOD. 1st commandment , “love God above all”. Sadly many Christians are not Christians, they know Christ but they don’t know His words, doesn’t even know the bible, spiritually dead, couldn’t understand the words of God.

    1. Filipina,

      This post is four and a half years old, so I’m not going to spend a lot of time responding. But short answer: yes, we should worship only God. But praying to Mary isn’t the same as worshipping her, and you shouldn’t be so quick to judge your fellow Christians. It might be that the problem is that you just don’t understand what we believe or why.

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